Curse

Bobby2 · Sep 22, 2008, 03:15 AM // 03:15

I can relate to that. Self snare can be very annoying. But Flail makes for a far sturdier Splinter carrier than Frenzy - and if AI ain't targeting you it's not really 'tank'n'spank' is it? Optional slot for mob control imho

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy Gus

triple chop
whirlwind attack
dismember
flail
enraging charge
I am unstoppable
I am the strongest
grasping earth

Fixed?

Greedy Gus · Sep 22, 2008, 03:38 AM // 03:38

It's not really tank & spank in the classic sense anyway, that's just how it ends up if you feel like microing the H/H for the most efficient mob killing (flagged back H/H, splinter on a couple hench, prot spirit yourself, longbow pull triggering enraging adren, "i'm unstoppable" aggro, kill the position flag for H/H and explode the mob with splinter, aoe elementalist henchies, spiteful, and "i'm the strongest" buffed triple chop).

Anime Divine · Sep 22, 2008, 09:26 AM // 09:26

Standard Shockaxe Build
eviscerate
executioner strike
interup agonizing chup or disrupting chop
frenzy
rush
rest 3 optional (REZZ)

instead of shock use something else like ebon sin (i dont like exhaustion)

and also bullstrike is a great skill but u would find it a hard time catching monsters kiting they arent that smart and if the casters decide to kite its just a delay of dead.

hold agro build adrenaline if agro breaks frenzy them to dead.

xDusT II · Sep 22, 2008, 10:14 AM // 10:14

For PvE Eviscerate I prefer:

Eviscerate
Executioner's Strike/Body Blow
Brawling Headbutt
Asuran Scan
"You Move Like a Dwarf!"
Frenzy
Rush
Res/"Save Yourselves!"/Utility

You can drop a PvE skill and take Drunken Master to free up two spaces, allowing you to sub in an interrupt or an adrenaline engine like For Great Justice. Otherwise pretty generic. Obviously you can't spam SY as much if you choose to bring it but of course you accept that the moment you drop Dragon Slash.

cataphract · Sep 22, 2008, 10:16 AM // 10:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

It's hard to fit a DW on a Dslash bar.

Thread isn't named "critique my d-slash bar". I checked. Twice.
That said, DW + 10 minions beating on the target = gg.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

What Savio said.

Deep wound is good, but a dslash warrior can (and usually does) manage without. If you can fit deep wound on it, go for it. But it certainly won't make a major difference if you don't have it.

What Cataphract said.

Deep Wound is imba and a warrior (surprise!) does not have to be your average dslash, sy gimmick.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xDusT II

The general rule of thumb is that Deep Wound is pretty much a necessity on warriors but there are exceptions. The reason I don't include DW on the DSlash bar is because

Your common warrior skill options for deep wound are Sever Artery and Gash, which eats up 2 skill slots as well as slowing down SY spam because of the adrenaline cost.
The other option is "Finish Him!", which means you have to sub out either SY, Brawling Headbutt or Asuran Scan, all of which are pretty overpowered and worth keeping.

I thought the general rule was "INFLICT MOAR DMG", but I guess that taking 20% off a 1000 hit point boss is bad compared to d-slash spam because, as we all know, fotm ftw. Also, instead of Sever+Gash, why not take a look what Axe Mastery has to offer?

Bottom line is - if DW was as weak condition as you guys make it look like - primary rangers would be able to inflict it since day one.

Sun Fired Blank · Sep 22, 2008, 10:23 AM // 10:23

Deep Wound caps at 100 health or 20%, whichever is less. Visually it will obliterate 20% of the bar anyways, but that's misleading. So in PvE DW is actually not particularly useful.

cataphract · Sep 22, 2008, 10:29 AM // 10:29

Finally someone with more than half a brain and an argument that isn't "what xy said" or "dslash ftw".
Beer on me when you come to Croatia, Sun.

xDusT II · Sep 22, 2008, 10:30 AM // 10:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by cataphract

Thread isn't named "critique my d-slash bar". I checked. Twice.
That said, DW + 10 minions beating on the target = gg.

What Cataphract said.

Deep Wound is imba and a warrior (surprise!) does not have to be your average dslash, sy gimmick.

I thought the general rule was "INFLICT MOAR DMG", but I guess that taking 20% off a 1000 hit point boss is bad compared to d-slash spam because, as we all know, fotm ftw. Also, instead of Sever+Gash, why not take a look what Axe Mastery has to offer?

Bottom line is - if DW was as weak condition as you guys make it look like - primary rangers would be able to inflict it since day one.

Most people here didn't say DW was a weak condition, in fact you'll find that quite a lot of us said the contrary.

The problem with fitting DW on a SY spam bar is that it's inconvenient, mostly because you want an energy based based form of application so it's not conflicting with SY, and this severely limits your options. If you want to go out of your way to take DW then that's fine, it's really a matter of whether you want to sacrifice skill slots for DW, or sub it onto another char (You should have plenty of options here considering SY covers so much of your defensive needs) and retain the bonuses that skills like Brawling Headbutt and Asuran Scan offer.

cataphract · Sep 22, 2008, 10:57 AM // 10:57

The problem isn't neither DW, nor SY - it's the mentality of this forum that makes people suggest only FOTM builds and nothing more. One gets an impression that there are only a handful builds one can use in GW. Since we're all so smart here, wouldn't our responsibility to new players be to show them more builds, give more options and encourage them to learn?

Savio · Sep 22, 2008, 12:23 PM // 12:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by cataphract

Thread isn't named "critique my d-slash bar". I checked. Twice.

You posted that after a DW-less Dslash build. I checked. Twice.

Quote:

One gets an impression that there are only a handful builds one can use in GW. Since we're all so smart here, wouldn't our responsibility to new players be to show them more builds, give more options and encourage them to learn?

He asked for good builds, not "omg i want to use pets and a bow." When people want creativity, they'll ask for it.

PyrAnkh · Sep 22, 2008, 12:28 PM // 12:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

It's hard to fit a DW on a Dslash bar.

be cool, swap weapons and use dwarven headbutt-crushing blow.

xDusT II · Sep 22, 2008, 02:02 PM // 14:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by cataphract

The problem isn't neither DW, nor SY - it's the mentality of this forum that makes people suggest only FOTM builds and nothing more. One gets an impression that there are only a handful builds one can use in GW. Since we're all so smart here, wouldn't our responsibility to new players be to show them more builds, give more options and encourage them to learn?

A build becoming popular or "FOTM" is usually in response to it's effectiveness, rather than a reason for it. I'm not suggesting these builds purely based on popularity for the same reason why I don't advocate for tank'n'spank. The fact that the build I posted just happens to be "FOTM" is because it's effective and everyone realises it.

If you want other builds then just do a quick search of the forum. I'm not going to repost what's in the sticky at the top of this forum, nor am I going to think up something wacky for every person that asks for a build.

-Lotus- · Sep 22, 2008, 02:41 PM // 14:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sun Fired Blank

So in PvE DW is actually not particularly useful.

lol wut?

123456789

Tyla · Sep 22, 2008, 03:06 PM // 15:06

If you want a deep wound on your common D-Slasher, take out Steelfang or the optional slot and use "Finish Him!".

Deep wound is a great condition. However, the usefulness of other skills on the common D-Slasher heavily outweigh the power of deep wound. It's a mere 100 extra damage, roughly 170 with "Finish Him!" and buffs you a little on use. I would take the extra utility.

To finish my post, Cataphract, people show these builds because they are incredibly effective. If there was something the person wanting a build was firm on, so be it. If s/he wants creativity, so be it. If he doesn't specify what s/he wants, then the most effective will pop up.

cataphract · Sep 23, 2008, 08:08 AM // 08:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

You posted that after a DW-less Dslash build. I checked. Twice.

You could have checked (once, at least) the bold part:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

He asked for good builds, not "omg i want to use pets and a bow." When people want creativity, they'll ask for it.

Notice the plural.

Giving him one build with a couple variations isn't plural. I'd think that, as a moderator, one should be able to think outside the regular confines of fotm builds. Let's call this my fail and move on.

xDusT II · Sep 23, 2008, 08:37 AM // 08:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by cataphract

Giving him one build with a couple variations isn't plural. I'd think that, as a moderator, one should be able to think outside the regular confines of fotm builds. Let's call this my fail and move on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xDusT II

For PvE Eviscerate I prefer:

Eviscerate
Executioner's Strike/Body Blow
Brawling Headbutt
Asuran Scan
"You Move Like a Dwarf!"
Frenzy
Rush
Res/"Save Yourselves!"/Utility

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lita

Above build 4tw
Scythe warrior 4tw
[Warrior's Endurance]
[Protector's Strike]
[Eremite's Attack]
[Mystic Sweep]
[Asuran Scan]
[Aura of Holy Might (Kurzick)]
["Save Yourselves!" (Kurzick)]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kvndoom

For Great Justice
Flail
Crude Swing
Whirlwind Attack
Earth Shaker
Pulverizing Smash
Sight Beyond Sight
Optional (Save Yourselves or rez, usually)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy Gus

triple chop
whirlwind attack
dismember
frenzy
enraging charge
I am unstoppable
I am the strongest
<optional>

Then of course there's all the builds in Marty's sticky at the top of this section...

_Nihilist_ · Sep 23, 2008, 09:22 AM // 09:22

The reason that I quoted both Savio and Marty is because they have shown, time and again, that they are more than willing to give solid, tested and proven information when someone requests it.

Even when the OP could have done more work, if just a fraction more, and found the answer themselves by using the Search Function on a Board that has been active for 3+ years.

Marty's name in particular comes up quite frequently because he wrote an excellent guide for Warriors, which just happens to be Stickied in this very Forum. It's not stickied there because DSlash/SY is a gimmick or FotM; it's Stickied because it is the best post for a newly started Warrior-user to check out BEFORE adding to the mass amount of "Can you guys help me with a build" Threads that pop up daily.

@ Cataphract

I freely swap between Axe, Hammer, and Sword, depending on my mood, what my Team needs/wants, and what I feel is best for a given area/situation. For Sword, DSlash/SY is hands down the most effective build out. For Axe I tend to go with a Cleave/Dismember build over an Evis build because it's pretty hard for me to get the 8+ Adrenaline up to spike before my target is already dead. With a Hammer I run either an Earthshaker or Dev Hammer build. Sometimes I run with an Enraged Smash build just for giggles.

I run with the same people all the time. They usually request DSlash/SY. It keeps my Squishies happy, healthy, and working at peak levels by helping me to grab aggro even after aggro breaks and reducing the damage that the Squishies take. When in a PUG (which has become increasingly rare), I take DSlash/SY because it can help prevent Party Wipes better than most other skillbars and still deals truckloads of damage.

Sun Fired Blank · Sep 23, 2008, 10:36 AM // 10:36

In PvP, you must have DW as you instantly negate roughly 20% of a target's bar if you have it. That's a very large margin of health; it's functional damage on spike for determining if the target lives or dies, and the very presence of the condition means you have to push that much fewer damage points in order to drop the target. When you're talking 600 health, that overhead is very significant in terms of survival.

In PvE, the notion of "spike" is fairly dumb, your team is unlikely to generate any organized burst of damage that simply obliterates your target. Most of the time, you simply power through and train your target into dust. So the functional damage you get from spike is a nonfactor and the overhead is largely a nonfactor whether your target lives or dies. When you drop enemies in PvE, you mostly exhaust or simply disable the red bars up for a group. You don't have to be sneaky; everything that you do in PvP to drop a target is mostly not as useful in PvE, so DW rarely has any greater tactical value.

Dragon Slash is one of the best general options for a frontliner because it enables you to:

1) push more single target damage than any other /W elite in the game.
2) permanently maintain the strongest defensive option available, "Save Yourselves!"

The reason it sucks for PvP is you lose slots on your bar. You must have Frenzy for IAS, you must have Rush for cancel, you must have Bull's Strike to deny movement, you must have Sever Artery to Gash for DW, you must have Sun and Moon Slash for a finisher. When you play PvE, you can simply disregard these considerations, and run your omega frontline godmode bar.

qvtkc · Sep 23, 2008, 12:36 PM // 12:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by xDusT II

The general rule of thumb is that Deep Wound is pretty much a necessity on warriors but there are exceptions. The reason I don't include DW on the DSlash bar is because

Your common warrior skill options for deep wound are Sever Artery and Gash, which eats up 2 skill slots as well as slowing down SY spam because of the adrenaline cost.
The other option is "Finish Him!", which means you have to sub out either SY, Brawling Headbutt or Asuran Scan, all of which are pretty overpowered and worth keeping.

Hi my name is Body Blow and I'm cooler than you.

(yes, I'm assuming your team has a cracked armor spammer somewhere)

xDusT II · Sep 23, 2008, 01:21 PM // 13:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by qvtkc

Hi my name is Body Blow and I'm cooler than you.

(yes, I'm assuming your team has a cracked armor spammer somewhere)

oh right, forgot body blow. If I wanted DW on the DSlash bar I'd probably take that and weaken armour on a hero or something.